Updated 11/25/10
When Jessica looked up the wolfsangel rune on her telephone, we also saw two other runes. One was based on a diamond. A number of them strung together would look like a chain link fence.
Originally the odal rune was assosicated with material wealth. The Nazi’s used it to represent blood and soil. In True Blood the diamond pattern has been used extensively. It seems to indicate some kind of barrier or restraint, either physical or psychological.
Here are just a few examples.
In the screencap below there are three diamond patterns. We’re looking through one in the fence. When the image is enlarged, you can see there is a diamond pattern in the metalwork covering the window of the business next door to Fangtasia, and the upholstered door also has one (more about it later).
In the two images below, the Mickenses’ living room has three different types of mullioned windows and shadows cast another diamond pattern on the wall.
In his dream, the wallpaper in Bill’s entry hall had a diamond pattern.
Was that original to the house or does it symbolize Billl blocking the truth about what happened to his family from himself, even in his dream?
This image is from the same episode, so clearly we are supposed to notice the difference.
Diamond patterns appear frequently on men’s ties.
Andy has several with them.
Shirts are also a popular place for them.
Pam, Yvetta, and Destiny all wear diamond patterned fishnet.
Russell wears his diamonds on his robe and gives Talbot diamond slippers.
His werewolf, Johnson, has a diamond pattern tattoo on his forearm. The faint lines criss cross between his elbow and wrist.
Daphne and Pam wore similar diamond patterns.
Amy, but never Jason, was shown in front of a mattress with diamond pattern ticking.
Eddie is restrained in a lounger with a diamond pattern. The woven pattern appears to be something that was custom made instead of just a commercial lounger without cushions indicating that the use of all of these diamonds is deliberate.
Another thing that indicates we should pay attention to this patter is the curious image in Eric’s office hanging to the right of the door.
When turned horizontally, it can be identified as mullioned windows viewed through a quatrefoil Gothic screen. (This brilliant insight and photos came from Gee back in September.)
Quatrefoils are another recurring image.
Jason has a quatrefoil clock.
There are quatrefoils in the tile surrounding Sookie’s fire place.
They also appear in her quilt. It’s interesting that the quatrefoils at Gran’s house are blue. Contrary to the false blues that were the subject of a recent post, Sookie, Gran, and Hoyt’s blues are indeed true blue. By that I mean that they are associated with the traditional blue symbolism faith, protection, honesty, and tranquility. (No wonder so many other characters co-opt those associations to use for their own purposes.) Sookie wears blue when she feels lost and lonely, perhaps as a way to feel closer to Gran.
But enough about color. We were talking about shape.
In her dream, as Arlene reels in her fishing line, the float leads the eye straight to a pair of leaves arranged in a perfect quatrefoil.
These two leaves are very similar to a prominent picture at Merlotte’s of a bird in flight.
(Image soon.)
At Fangtasia behind the bar there is a mask with eyes and nose that also form a brown quatrefoil and resemble the bird at Merlotte’s. (It is just above Sookie’s head on the right.)
Godric had a piece of antique stonework that incorporated a quatrefoils where the circles overlapped.
Why are quatrefoils associated with Eric, Jason, Gran, Sookie, and Godric?
They were also on the silver doors Talbot (Sookie’s doppel) installed when he redecorated the guest room.
Eric had quatrefoils overlaying a diamond pattern in the photo next to his door, and now we have Bill framed in a doorway wearing a shirt with a diamond pattern and standing next to quatrefoils. What is the connection? Does it go back to Portia, whose name means door and who is the gateway to grace in The Merchant of Venice? Can the diamond barriers holding back so many characters only be broken by the grace of God? Is Sookie the gateway that will, over the course of the series, finally allow Bill to access that grace and be redeemed?
In the image below you can once again see the diamond pattern in Fangtasia’s upholstered door. You can also see the quatrefoil in the lampshade next to it. This is the third door connected with both diamonds and quatrefoils. If you count the St. Andrew’s cross underneath the window in the Mickenses’ door as a quatrefoil, it is the fourth. There are also mullion windows in the entry at Merlotte’s. Wanna bet that when we finally get a good look at the area, quatrefoils will be present, too?
Does this combination indicate that freedom from bondage is always possible through grace? I’m not certain this is the message but have no idea what else it could be.
The quatrefoil is an ancient symbol. In non-Chrisitan cultures it was associated with the material world: the four elements and the four cardinal directions, and in Christian ones, with the four evangelists. They were tasked with spreading the good news of salvation, which ties in to the idea of grace. (See Amil’s comments below about how this symbolism relates to Eric.)
A question for Anna: We’ve been discussing how this diamond pattern might relate to Buddhism and the diamond sutra. Do you think the diamond vehicle, which cuts through illusions and afflictions, could be represented by the quatrefoil?
Update: Steve obscures a quatrefoil in episode 3.09.
In 3.10 it’s barely recognizable.
*Thanks to Osterby and Amil for contributing additional images.







































Great pictures. I think the quatrefoil is more of a Western Christian symbol but will have a look in the library to see if I can find anything that resembles it.
Interesting post Renee. Look forward to hearing opinions.
I’d like to wish you and all American posters a Happy and Safe Thanksgiving. I’ll raise a glass at lunch tomorrow to you all.
Thanks, BobsGran!
I want to start the holiday by giving thanks for all the readers and contributers to TAP. This blog has turned into so much more and enriched my life than I ever imagined because of your quick wits, deep thought, and kind hearts. I love y’all.
This is fascinating! Thank you, Renee and Anna for bringing these patterns to my attention. The Eddie screencap is making me think – I remember mesh marks completely covering his skin, but I guess that’s a remnant from the silver chain mail Amy uses to subdue him instead? I have to go back and look this weekend…I wonder if those marks are diamond-shaped as well?
Good thought! I bet either the marks or the hood that made them had a diamond pattern.
There are also blood diamonds and all that implies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_diamond
Good point. You can’t overlook the socio-political angle when AB is involved.
Russell made sure that Talbot had more than just “diamond slippers”. Check out the metal fronts of the cabinet behind Russell.
http://black-celebration.net/caps/displayimage.php?pid=943653&fullsize=1
Also,
http://black-celebration.net/caps/displayimage.php?pid=943732&fullsize=1
And QSA is very fond of diamonds…http://black-celebration.net/caps/displayimage.php?pid=946372&fullsize=1
Oh yes! We can’t forget Talbots diamond slippers, LOL! They are definitely blood diamonds.
Thanks for pointed out RE and his precious collection. I’ll add these images above.
Happy Turkeys to all.
I have been looking for a screen cap of when Russell looks to his cabinet and realizes that Eric has “torn through the diamond pattern” on cabinet front to retrieve his father’s crown. But I can’t find one. Did I imagine this? Does anyone remember seeing this? Could there be any significance to this?
Here you go!
http://ladymanson.com/screencaps/albums/TV/M-Z/TrueBlood/S3/309/New%20Folder/tb309_0097.jpg
You bring up a great point about Eric tearing through the barrier. It was also Jason who helped Luke over the fence, and Godric who got Soookie out of the FOTS cage.
Yea! I remember when you first mentioned researching this.
{Why are quatrefoils associated with Eric, Jason, Sookie, and Godric?}
In Christian symbolism, the quatrefoil represents the four evangelists Winged Man (Matthew), Lion (Mark), Ox (Luke), and Eagle (John)
Though they all seem to lead back to Eric.
Wiki source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Evangelists
*Matthew the Evangelist, the author of the first gospel account is symbolized by a winged man, or angel.This signifies that Christians should use their reason for salvation.
Eric and Godric posed beside a statue of an angel and what may be a statue of Jesus.
http://black-celebration.net/caps/displayimage.php?pid=852045&fullsize=1
Not missing the pose with Sookie next to the statue either.
http://black-celebration.net/caps/displayimage.php?pid=849679&fullsize=1
*Mark has John the Baptist preaching “like a lion roaring”. This signifies that Christians should be courageous on the path of salvation.
Who do we know that roars? An interview with AS basing his character on a lion.
http://www.showbizspy.com/article/210169/alexander-skarsgard-bases-true-blood-character-on-a-lion.html
*Luke the Evangelist, the author of the third gospel account (and the Acts of the Apostles) is symbolized by a winged ox or bull. The ox signifies that Christians should be prepared to *sacrifice themselves* in following Christ.
Sam Season 2. http://black-celebration.net/caps/displayimage.php?pid=863077&fullsize=1
*John the Evangelist, the author of the fourth gospel account is symbolized by an eagle. This represents that Christians should look on eternity without flinching as they journey towards their goal of union with God.
Eagles, eagle tees, and eagle claws?…
The bible is definitely no.1 in terms of parallelism. For me at least. The synoptic gospel has many of the same stories told by Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synoptic_Gospels
The Gospel of John gives a first hand account on the life of Jesus. His ministry and miracles. Maybe we are getting Eric’s pov S4.
This brings something else to mind with Godric. I can’t think of it atm but thanks for the pick-me-up.
Well, after this I need to be picked up off the floor! This is fabulous!
You’ve explainsd why there is a set of horns over the door and Fangtasia and why Sookie calls Eric a cowboy. Nice work!
Going back to that incredible Brahman bull…Before the bull appears you can hear ERIC give a lion’s roar exactly like he did when he attacked Royce. Could that have been Eric flying in with the bull in his arms like Royce was? If Bill can stage a tornado with uprooted trees and a crumpled trailer, Eric should be able to carry a couple sides of beef.
Afterall, it was book Eric who delivered an ox as a sacrifice to the maenad in LDID. Sookie wished she had seen that sight. I bet TB Sookie will have the same thought one day.
Amil, that is just beautiful.
I think Sunny is going to be real happy about the additional proof of Eric’s participation in the MA’s demise. Wahoo.
I definitely have something to say to that and I’ll be dropping (random) stuff on the site all day and weekend. There’s so much to say.
More pics FOTS is full on diamonds
Steve Newling Diamonds and gold tie
http://ladymanson.com/screencaps/displayimage.php?pid=170838&fullsize=1
Bill
http://ladymanson.com/screencaps/displayimage.php?pid=171163&fullsize=1
Stan
http://ladymanson.com/screencaps/displayimage.php?pid=171205&fullsize=1
Isabel
http://ladymanson.com/screencaps/displayimage.php?pid=171707&fullsize=1
Godric. You can only see the diamonds clearly when Stan comes into the shot.
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/764/godricdia.png
Oh Amil! This is fabulous! Can’t wait to see what else you turn up.
Amil, this is amazing, thank you.
The lion and eagle are such iconic creatures that they also used by other traditions.
The phrase the lion’s roar is used in Buddhism for the title of two discourses:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/wheel390.html
The eagle also has links with shamanism:
http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan6.html
I love the way that John’s Gospel can be both canonical and apocryphal, so that could make an Eric/John POV for S4 quite interesting.
It makes sense for Christian allegory to be used in TB as it’s what most viewers would be familiar with, but I also really like the way that symbols evolve and move from tradition to tradition.
Christianity seems to have used pre-existing Egyptian and Semitic/Sumerian symbols. The lion and eagle were a solar symbols and the bull had links with the sky. Another winged man that pre-dated the gospels was Hermes/Mercury, the messenger of the gods.
This is fantastic! I love how there are always more things to uncover about TB. Every time I think, “okay, now I’m ready to start over with S1 and watch for the hidden messages and clues, someone uncovers something else. Great job, guys!
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you south of the border.
Happy turkey day!
You know me; nothing’s ever finished. I updated my original post to include the images y’all dug up and a few more I found. I also realized that in the ep with Bill’s dream and his diamond wallpaper, we are given a good look at the wallpaper that’s there in the present. I speculated a little about the difference.
You’re a marvel!
Thank you so much for all that you do and a big thanks to everyone else also as I learn so much from you all.
Happy Thanksgiving to you all.
From an alchemical perspective, the diamond holds the following attributes:
Clarity
Vision
Awareness
Labyrinth
Journey
http://www.whats-your-sign.com/diamond-alchemy-symbol.html
In connection with Pam and Daphne, I think the diamond shapes may be a Goddess-ie, vagina–symbol.
Diamonds in connection with Eric: Until the 14th Century only Kings could wear diamonds, because they stood for strength, courage and invincibility. The word diamond comes from the Greek word “adamas” meaning unconquerable or invincible.
To Sookie: to impart virtue, generosity
Sam and Andy’s gold diamond ties: When set in gold and worn on the left side, it was believed that the diamond held the power to drive away nightmares, to ward off devils, phantoms and soothe savage beasts.
Bill: to calm the mentally ill.–its Aryan root “dam”, to tame or subdue, is also the basis of the word ”madam”.
The above can be found at gembrokers dot org.
Amil, loved your post on the four disciples!
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Thanks, everyone. “TB is too complex, despite what you might see at the show.” I love coming here. You need an army of people to decipher the mind f***ery (please excuse the language. It’s the only term that works) they dish out.
And Sunny I have a few movies to add to your movie club as soon as I learn how to embed video in the comments. Can I embed video in the comments? Still a new to wordpress.
You shouldn’t have any trouble with video.
Renee, I think I saw another diamond pattern to add to the collection.
The scene where Sam is pouring a bottle of booze on his hand just after he has beaten up Calvin.
The buttons on his shirt appear to be diamond shape. Couldn’t pause it in the right place for some reason, but I think the buttons were diamond pattern.
You are right! There are diamonds on his shoulders and his in buttons.
http://black-celebration.net/caps/albums/true/3×09/3x09_1145.jpg
Test
LMAO. Thanks for the chuckle. It is soooo TRUE.
LMAO. As a young wife I would ask my husband “whatcha thinking about honey?” and he’d say ‘nothin”. I couldn’t believe a human could sit there thinking about nothing and would get irritated as hell with him for not sharing his innermost thoughts with me. Now, after decades of experience, I believe it.:D
This old post seems to have some relevance to the discussion of quatrefoils.
http://www.ancientpythoness.com/2010/05/15/whats-in-an-address/
Fangtasia’s address 444
Sheriff’s address 4440
Dawn’s address 5044
A lot. I know. Can’t help it. When Renee asked, something clicked and I couldn’t shut it off.
As we know, it can go either way and the best thing about theories is that, right or wrong, they still make you think and bring up a lot of good points. If any of this has already been said please forgive me.
There’s another part to this but it’s another subject all to itself so I’m giving the short version. Well shorter.
The Death of a Maenad was paralleled in two other episodes, that I can think of, besides 2×10. 2×08 and 3×07.
*In a lot of what I’ve read, it’s said that Dionysus is invoked as a raging bull. “At a festival for Hera, Dionysus is invited to come as a bull; “with bull-foot raging.”
As far as I know the only thing that was raging in that scene was Maryann. She was about to strike Sookie when she heard a roar. She looked up and saw a bull. As calm as a raging bull shouldn’t be. Then it hit me. Eric/Sookie has a thing for role play but they kinda suck at it. Jason/Dawn, Eric/Blood prostitute, Sam and Jason at Merlotte’s. Smite me, motherf***ker lol just horrible. And they usually have to help each other out with their sad performances.
*Now, another scene gives this away is when Sam once again shifted into a bull. A pitbull in 3×07. The sweetest, most docile, and QUIET, wild pit you’d ever encounter. “You look mean but you mind well“. The man was expecting a ferocious animal. The dog to the side was growling while being trained by his handler, while Sam went off as a happy prisoner. When they finally were alone Sam raised a weapon to him (just as he raised his horn to Maryann), didn’t use it but only knocked him out. Find it peculiar that Sam (as a pit) never made one sound, only panting?
There is also the story of Ampelos. A love of Dionysus gored by a wild bull. He was turned into a grape vine of which Dionysus had the first drink. Read the third paragraph on the page. Boasting to the goddess of the moon in the heavens(night sky). Hmm? Still nothing wild about Sam.
http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/SatyrosAmpelos.html
And if you watch S2F over you’ll see it’s as if vines are growing on Maryann after Sam rips out her heart.
Side note: why was her heart still beating and she still living until he crushed it?
http://ladymanson.com/screencaps/displayimage.php?pid=169737&fullsize=1
*Now in 2×08 we find the same scene with Eric willingly giving himself in exchange for Sookie and Godric lives as Sam did in 2×10/12 for everyone. Just as Steve is about to shoot Sookie (Same as MA hovering over Sookie), useless Bill runs in threatening to kill everyone, when Jason (for sake of the argument, we’ll say from above) calls out Steve’s name and shoot his hand/threw up the flares/someone roared. It was about to be complete chaos again until Godric appeared (from above) and said enough/Jason roared with the horns (after being called out by Terry)/Maryann saw the Bull.
Put the last two top photos together and Sam would be in the same pose as Eric:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1967/99341338.jpg
*Why does it seem funny. Think back S1 when Sam/Dean attacked Rene. Running, growling, and barking. (Based purely on the general negative stigma alone, you would think pit Sam would have more bite than an English Shepherd. Why didn‘t he? Why so quiet now? Bill drags himself along with his false sacrificial attempt at rescuing her. Sam gets his thanks but Bill gets the girl, the attention and somehow manages to take the credit. Much like him dragging along because he gave Sam too much blood. Sookie cradles/consoles him. Or when Godric stopped the soon-to-be massacre and she turned into Bill’s chest and he told her that everything was fine and then tells Eric to go fall on a stake. Um Bill, Eric and Godric just saved everyone’s life. Not to mention him calling her back when she took off Eric’s chains, just like when she tried to go to Sam/Eric in the S2F/S3F.
S3F, Bill told Sookie that he “once again” had to save her life. Besides the fact that someone else did a lot of the saving, you can only count the times you didn’t cause the situation yourself. Bill is THEE false-hero and right now my money is on Tara saying how weird things have been happening since he showed up.
1. Was that moonlight shining on Maryann and Sam. There was no lamp post where they were standing? The story said Ampelos was talking to the full faced moon. Would that even make sense in the timeline? Or just a signal to the story or a deity in the air.
2. Could it be that since Eric didn’t have a “strong” presence S1 that Sam had more of a, voice so to speak. Hence the growling as Dean but as a pit S3. But now that he’s here and has shouldered the burden of saving Sookie , Sam has…withdrawn a bit? I can’t word it right. I hope you get what I mean. Considering MA’s comment about him not being an alpha.
Snack break.
There was one other part but after reading this there are 2. I’ll get to that soon. Don’t worry shorter than this but adds a bit more insight.
Amil, you are my hero. DO go on!
Yes, yes! I am in the middle of trying to digest all this, but please do go on!I feel certain that you are on the right track. Mark the Evangelist–>Sam’s bull–>Pit Bull–>Eric–> Christ who was as silent and meek as a lamb before his accusers.
The Ampelos connection is fascinating, too.
Ok. I just started researching the stuff a few hours ago so there’s much more to read. I know this has been brought up but there’s more than I thought there was. Not just on Bill’s part.
The 2nd part I was going to send to you Renee, you probably have started on this already. I haven’t really thought it through I only have a few examples but but it’s a big part of TB. This is just a rough draft and I know you and your co-conspirator have a better handle on the show than I do and you could clean it up and put a bow on it. So if you still could please do.
The art of distraction.
In all of the examples I gave up there seems to always be a distraction before a charge. Also mostly on the show everyone using everyone else as a distraction not sure of the meaning.
Main example: 3×07 Tara asked Sookie to do anything, just distract Debbie. What did she do? She screamed. And then Tara charged at Debbie. Sound familiar? Could be, possibly? At first I thought it was hilarious. All of the things she could’ve done. But now it’s starting to make sense.
Season 1: Sam barking at the Rattrays to distract from Sookie right before Bill attacked them.
Season 2: Jason sent up the flares to distract from Sam and shot Steve to distract from Sookie.
Season3: Eric killing Talbot. I have a problem with Eric for that and will for a while. Still, I’m sure that it wasn’t purely in revenge. It distracted Russell from Bill and Sookie.
Sam freeing the dogs was also a distraction for getting Tommy out the ring.
And not just in combat.
Laffy and Tara using drugs.
Merlotte’s bar and the whole town. Nuff said.
Season 1:Jason uses women to distract from the real world and growing up, remember that sad convo with Eddie. (And Laffy’s commentary on Jason and Tara) Just as Eric used women to distract himself from his father, who tried to teach him how to rule.
Just as Randy Sue and Sarah used Jason to distract him from their awful husbands. They really didn’t bother with him emotionally. If you noticed Sarah was always in heat when he was around. What was Sam saying about Tara using him as a prop to feel better. But I have a huge problem with him saying that. That’s another post. Not to mention Sookie have a 2 day thing with Sam when she was pissed off at Bill.
Or how Tara and Sam used each other to distract themselves from Sookie and Jason. (Yes they did lol)
After Gran’s funeral. I wondered why it was such an aphrodisiac. That the three, she took care, who thought of her as a mother were all getting off after her funeral. Distraction. I’m not sure who that says more about them or the ones sleeping with them. Sookie and Jason obviously hurt, her swearing him off after the funeral. Tara cussing Lettie Mae for daring her to show up and letting her know who her real mother was. And yet Bill, Sam, and Randi S. didn’t mind. As Jason laid there crying and Randi was completely oblivious.
There’s another reason why I’m a little P.O’d and Bill and Sam for this more Bill than Sam but I’ll get into that when I send you the Bill/Sam list. Never got the chance to go over it and headache did set in but not for the reason you think.
Season 2: Maryann using Daphne and Eggs as a distraction for Sam and Tara.
Bill/alts constantly playing the victim to distract Sookie/alts from dropping almost them on their collective a**es.
This ties into part 3 which might not come for awhile. I just found part 3 after reading part 1. And it’s a lot to read.
My goodness typos galore. My kingdom for an edit button. lol
*her daring to showing up
*almost dropping
Fabulous stuff here, Amil! We’ve talked about the two distractions s2 and how Jason and Sookie use sex to keep from thinking about Gran, but you have expanded it, connected it into an overarching theme and tied it up with a bow.
2. Could it be that since Eric didn’t have a “strong” presence S1 that Sam had more of a, voice so to speak. Hence the growling as Dean but as a pit S3. But now that he’s here and has shouldered the burden of saving Sookie , Sam has…withdrawn a bit? I can’t word it right. I hope you get what I mean. Considering MA’s comment about him not being an alpha.
OMG! Collie Sam is Bill, deceptively ferocious, and Pit Bull Sam is Eric–a cream puff in the suit of a badass motherfucker.
Bill drags himself along with his false sacrificial attempt at rescuing her. Sam gets his thanks but Bill gets the girl, the attention and somehow manages to take the credit
1.12. He drags himself in the sun to try to save Sookie from Rene.
2.12 He drags himself because he gave blood to Sam to try to save Sookie.
3.06 He drags himself in silver to Lorena to try to save Sookie. (IMO this is as deceptive as the two times before.)
Bill is THEE false-hero and right now my money is on Tara saying how weird things have been happening since he showed up.
Not sure how this fits in, but in s3 Bill becomes the (false? unwilling?) sacrifice. Compare the images of him chained up to the ones of Eric and Sam you referenced.
1. Was that moonlight shining on Maryann and Sam. There was no lamp post where they were standing? The story said Ampelos was talking to the full faced moon. Would that even make sense in the timeline? Or just a signal to the story or a deity in the air.
The moon ties in with the Easter Vigil symbolism in Timebomb (and Merchant of Venice). Easter is calculated to the first full moon after the spring equinox. That means the night of the bombing should have been a full moon symbolically. Three nights later at MA’s wedding, there should still be lots of moonlight–symbolically speaking. Using the 8/16/09 bombing date, the opposite is the case. It’s 3 nights before total darkness. I’ve been puzzling about why the symbolic full moon doesn’t correspond to the one on the calendar since that would be the perfect way to show Sookie’s timeline is off. Now it occurs to me that this could be due to Bill being ‘The Dark.’ He has flipped the calendar, brought Sookie darkness when there should be light. Instead of the maenad attack occurring 3 days away from the full moon. It is 3 days away from the new moon and total darkness.
The full moons on the show are the night that Bill deflowers Sookie and the night that he buries Eric in concrete–high points for Bill, but these full moons do not correspond to new moon in 2009 either.
!!!
I’ve talked in the past about how, as Jesus, Eric is symbolized as the moon, reflecting God’s light. (This was one of the s3 posters, the ‘true blood’ on the alter in the moonlight.) I’ve also talked about the theme of occlusion, the posers usurping the place of the authentic. That is exactly what is going on here. The new moon,’The Dark,’ is Bill getting in the way of Eric, the moon shining the sun’s reflected light. This is why Eric has the sun sign in his office and why it was blacked out the first time Bill entered.
Sorry this is so jumbled. Need to think some more to sort it all out, but this is BIG.
Wow didn’t see your post before I posted the 2nd part that now I have more to take in.
There is also a full moon the night that Bill kills Uncle B. Just checked.
Thanks for refreshing my memory. There is what looks like a full moon the night of Sookie’s deflowering and the next night, too. I think you’re right that the true full moon is the night after because that’s when Sam shifted and got caught in the woods without any clothes. To the naked eye, the moon would look the same on both those nights.
That would mean there are full moons the night Bill killed UB and let the vampire trio be killed and the night that Bill thought he’d entombed Eric and let RE be entombed. That’s also the night he intends to kill SA.
Okay you really might be where my mind is with Sam. The confusion does not end here.
Notice that Godric always speaks in soft, hushed tones. God is usually depicted as having a booming voice like on tv shows. Big brother with a bull horn. But it’s describe as small, still voice. 1 Kings 19:12
I have two other things with Godric. I don’t know when I’ll ever get to them. What are methods for relaxing when you want to look up all these things at once because right now I’m overwhelmed?
Amil & Renée I’m in awe at what you’ve put together.
Check out the last two photos of SN.
Yet more confirmation that Bill has been obscuring the real Eric.
Brain is not functioning due to lack of second cuppa. SN?
Steve Newlin, sitting on tv obscuring the quatrefoil–supplanting it, if you will, placing himself ahead of it just like Bill does to Eric in the narrative.
DUH. Thanks Sunny.
This can’t go on, right? Eric is 1000 years old and now he’s got Bill’s number he’s GOT to wrestle control of the narrative away from Bill. Right? Surely this has to be the ‘paradigm shift’ Sam T. talked about recently. I’m not sure I can endure another season of Bill’s influence over the narrative. It’s fun to talk about but maddening to watch.
I hope it does change, 3 seasons of mostly the same POV is long enough.
Maybe the first episode will still be Bill’s pov. Then Eric will somehow find out that Sook has been “rebooted” and take over the narration.
If the ‘holy crap’ moment Sam T. talked about, which happens ‘immediately’, has anything to do with Bill then we can be assured that it will be Eric’s pov right from the start. Bill would never allow us to see a ‘holy crap’ moment involving himself, nor would Sookie show it to us while she’s under Bill’s influence.
I predict the ‘holy crap’ moment will be the revelation that Bill has Sookie and not Claudine. Given we’ll pick up immediately where we left off, I imagine this means we will find this out in the fight scene between Bill and QSA, in which a rebooted Sookie steps in to ‘save’ Bill just as she saved him from Lorena. Hopefully, the next scene will be a pov shot from Eric flying to Bill’s house to exact revenge against him for trying to kill Pam, or because he feels Sookie’s distress. In a scene that will parallel Jason/Crystal/Felton Sookie will not know who he is.
I wrote this at SVB’s forum, which I think proves Bill had plenty of time to have an amnesia spell cast on Sookie:
The timeline of Bill and Sookie’s last scenes in the finale give us an indication of what might have happened.
After Eric and Bill left, Sookie sat down and had a cry, ran out to the cemetery and disappeared with Claudine. It is indicated that all of this occurred within perhaps 15 minutes, tops.
OTOH, Bill went home, showered, changed into fresh clothes, called SA, and then sat and waited for her, how long? No indication that SA can fly so he’d have to wait for her to drive from either Jackson or NOLA, which would take some time either way. Even if he called her before he showered and changed it wouldn’t make much difference. If the thinking is that by Sookie rescinding his invite was the catalyst for him calling SA to commit suicide by queen, then the call could only have been made after he left Sookie’s house, regardless.
So we’ve got two very different passages of time here. If we switch the scenes around and have Sookie running to the cemetery and getting ‘abducted’, and then jump to Bill greeting the queen, we can assume Bill had plenty of time in between to ‘compel’ Claudine to bring Sookie to his house ‘under false pretenses’. Having already called a witch to put a selective memory wiping spell on Sookie, he could sit back and wait for SA while the ritual is taking place, instigate a fight with her [QSA] once she got there and expect, confidently, that a now forgetful Sookie would save him with her glow hands.
Bottom line: Anywhere from 3-5 hours should have passed for Bill between leaving Sookie and fighting with SA. He had plenty of time to get up to no good with Sookie. IOW, he had the means, motive, and opportunity to do whatever was necessary to keep his claws in her.
What you say is probable. The only caveat for me is that I think QSA can fly. That last scene has her hovering in the air, in her snake like pose, and it appears that it is not a leap, but a hovering same as Bill.
That would reduce the time line I think. Still enough time for him to accomplish his goal though.
All in all a change in pov is more than welcome as you said.
I’m pretty sure Sookie’s pov ended when she was kidnapped, but we haven’t been shown yet who took over the narrative as far as I can tell.
With 3 negredo season of Bill heavily influencing the narrative, we should get Eric influencing the narrative during the albedo stage. I’m not sure if it will start right away. Bill’s influence wasn’t noticeable until the chairs started dancing in 1.04.
What you say is probable. The only caveat for me is that I think QSA can fly. That last scene has her hovering in the air, in her snake like pose, and it appears that it is not a leap, but a hovering same as Bill.
That would reduce the time line I think. Still enough time for him to accomplish his goal though.
All in all a change in pov is more than welcome as you said
Oh it is absolutely possible SA can fly but I don’t think she did in this instance for the simple reason that she was still perfectly coiffed and turned out. Compare with Eric in s2 when his hair was so deliciously tousled after flying to NOLA. SA wouldn’t fly just to keep herself perfect, plus she had to have the means to transport her Fae back to her lair.
IMO, a change in narrative pov is essential. TB is going to lose a lot of viewers if the status quo is adhered to. Non obsessive neutral viwers are far too annoyed with TB as it stands right now. They don’t understand the holes in the plots and the plethora of other shit that doesn’t make sense right now, nor do they understand the seemingly unrelated subplots. Something’s gotta give. AB has stretched this out to the breaking point and he knows when to ease up deliver the payoff.
What you say is probable. The only caveat for me is that I think QSA can fly. That last scene has her hovering in the air, in her snake like pose, and it appears that it is not a leap, but a hovering same as Bill.
That would reduce the time line I think. Still enough time for him to accomplish his goal though.
All in all a change in pov is more than welcome as you said
Oh it is absolutely possible SA can fly but I don’t think she did in this instance for the simple reason that she was still perfectly coiffed and turned out. Compare with Eric in s2 when his hair was so deliciously tousled after flying to NOLA. SA wouldn’t fly just to keep herself perfect, plus she had to have the means to transport her Fae back to her lair.
IMO, a change in narrative pov is essential. TB is going to lose a lot of viewers if the status quo is adhered to. Non obsessive neutral viwers are far too annoyed with TB as it stands right now. They don’t understand the holes in the plots and the plethora of other shit that doesn’t make sense right now, nor do they understand the seemingly unrelated subplots. Something’s gotta give. AB has stretched this out to the breaking point and he knows when to ease up and deliver the long awaited payoff. Plus, since book 4 was so Eric-centric it’s only fair that he be allowed to take over the narrative.
Oops, sorry about the double post.
I’m pretty sure Sookie’s pov ended when she was kidnapped, but we haven’t been shown yet who took over the narrative as far as I can tell.
I agree we haven’t been shown yet.
With 3 negredo season of Bill heavily influencing the narrative, we should get Eric influencing the narrative during the albedo stage. I’m not sure if it will start right away. Bill’s influence wasn’t noticeable until the chairs started dancing in 1.04.
I’m counting on Sam’s words that something will make it all ‘fresh’ have something to do with pov. Of course a change in pov would be obvious to someone like Sam T. but as you say, it may not be obvious to the attentive portion of the audience at first. However, I do think an immediate change in tone and emphasis should be the major clue we’re getting a different perspective, in addition to what we are allowed to see of Bill.
OMG girl, msbuffy deleted my comment ‘over there’ and you are listed as ‘banned’. I can’t tell yet whether I am banned.
Wow!
I just really cannot believe that. There was no PM warning or anything. I guess she didn’t like my last comment, which ironically is still up even though yours is gone.
I did notice that the last post of yours is gone. What do you want to make a bet she deleted the ‘fundamentalist Christian’ and the ‘lazy and delusional’ comments so no evidence of her unfairness remains?
Wouldn’t doubt it. You know when she started all this blustering about, she specifically said that my comments were not the issue, it was others who were engaging in name calling and the warning was to them. (That was even prior to the comment comparing me to a fundamentalist Christian.)
The one time I got a warning there was a problem with any of my posts was a pm a couple days ago asking me to reword one about Bill blowing Cooter, which I did immediately and received a nice thank you pm for my efforts.
Next thing you know, others are throwing around words like lazy and delusional and I am banned, but here is the kicker…
One of her last responses to me is this…
Me: “Wow! That’s really nice, Switzerland. Start with name calling and then after you’ve had a chance to think about what you wrote make it worse. ”
Moderator: WTF? OK, I’ve had enough of this. It’s really not a good thing to make the Moderator angry.
Not only is her anger not directed at the poster who called me lazy and delusional, her language directly to me is more objectionable than what I said to describe what I think Bill did to Coot.
Exactly. And she accused YOU of mocking others for their pov which was a blatant lie and she knew it. She was calling you out specifically in that post when absolutely nothing had been done about the name calling directed at you. Apparently she banned you, and me, for FACTUALLY challenging her words and actions. I can ALMOST understand my banning as I called her out as a dictator, but yours was polite and respectful. Your banning was meant to send the message that it is not permissable to challenge the convention wisdom that Bill is an honourable person, and that it is just fine to name call the people who do.
I wanted to copy my last post here because I know it will get deleted again:
Niiiice msbuffy. Ban Rygee and delete my comment. This may not be a democracy but posters here shouldn’t be expected to put up with a dictatorship. I’ll say it again though I don’t doubt it will be deleted again, but it is clear by your words and actions that attacking Bill is not permitted, it is not permitted to defend yourself if you are personally attacked for hating Bill, while BL’s are perfectly free to attack Eric and personally attack posters who dislike Bill. NOTHING was said or done when Rygee was likened to a fundamentalist Christian and passive aggressively called ‘lazy and delusional’. Every fair minded person on this thread knows that Rygee NEVER engaged in this sort of behavior while personal attacks against her have been tolerated because she hates Bill.
Sure thing.
Well, this is quite a badge of honor. I’ve never been banned from anything in my life.
Ooops. Didn’t mean to post that quite yet. I wanted to thank you for sticking up for me. Hugs.
No problem girl. Me and msbuffy went ’round and ’round last year and she’s the main reason I abandoned the place, so it was cathartic for me.
I copied my comment and sent it to akel and pbt before it gets deleted and I am banned as well.
Haha, now I’m banned and I can’t even view the page. Wonder what took her so long?
Well you’re always welcome in your own home, With us guests who refuse to leave. So if I haven’t said it before Renee and Sunny. Thanks for making me feel welcome.
Thanks for your kind words Amil. I always knew if they were directly challlenged bannings would follow. I wanted to take a stand and make a point for those who are still around. It’s so obvious what’s going on, what goes on at many supposedly neutral TB sites. BL’s are allowed to behave atrociously while EL’s have to adhere to the parameters of the debate set by them. This is par for the course.
Awww…thanks Amil, Osterby, and Bobsgran.
MC, are you still having trouble posting????
me too…thanks for your kindness to all of us who post at your sites.
Care to share where you were? I luvvvv trouble.
Ooh me too. Then again I tend to swear if I get really po’d. LOL
Ok, now it’s really getting weird. Renee, have you banned me too? *cries* None of my comments are showing up! waahhhh.
Ok, maybe you’ve banned the link to the TB wiki? LMAO!! I keep trying to post it but the comment won’t show up! Anyhoo ya bunch of troublemakers
we were at HBO’s TB Wiki, on the forums in the ‘season 4 specs and theories thread’ but I ain’t posting the link.
Definitely not! You’re my sister in crime!
Let’s get our fightin shoes on Bobsgran!
I know what you are saying about your posts not showing up here. I have the same problem at your blog. I have to open a new window and then the newer posts show up.
Haha! Osterby, you and BG can stand down. It’s really not worth it. Besides, when I’m over there I always feel like I’m cheating. This is where I belong and TBU and SVB are where I am welcome.
Yeah, stand down gals it definitely is NOT worth it. Let them have it, though it irks me to say that. It feels SO MUCH like dealing with rabid right wingers. *steam shoots out of my ears*
Easy girl. Mix yourself a Bloody Mary or a Screwdriver and relax. I’m going for a Mimosa.
It just so happens I have some Grey Goose. Screwdriver it is.
(it’ll have to wait until later though. I have to clean out the freakin’ storage room because I can hardly get to my Christmas decorations.
)
Hopefully a little later Osterby. Waiting for a friend to pick me up for lunch.
well…it is definately their loss over there. they will no longer have your voices of reason. can’t find the tread yet but i see renee’s comments are on the scroll still. HaHa…I clicked on both of your profiles “Banned” I will send you both Scarlet ‘B’s.
I’ve only been over there once or twice and they definitely don’t seem to encourage people to think for themselves, no spirit of enquiry just follow the party line.
It’s the opposite here and at TBU which is why I like it so much. Thank you for making me feel welcome and for all that you do.
Thank you anna. You can’t imagine how much I appreciate all of you ladies who come here and to TBU. All of you add so much to our collective understanding and I love it!
I wouldn’t DREAM of deleting comments from BL’s nor would I ban them from participating. It’s just not in my DNA. At the same time, I am incapable of remaining classy in the face of stupidity.
I admire Renee’s ability to keep her head.
I think you’re both classy.
Right back atchya, Anna!
Thank you anna. You can’t imagine how much I appreciate all of you ladies who come here and to TBU. All of you add so much to our collective understanding and I love it!
Ditto! Sunny you are just so good with words, I’ll let you speak for me. My sentiments are exactly the same.
I wouldn’t DREAM of deleting comments from BL’s nor would I ban them from participating. It’s just not in my DNA.
I welcome intellectual diversity. In fact, I would love to find a BL who can build a case from the subtext that he is meant to be the romantic hero of the piece.
The only things that are not permitted here are ad hominem attacks. There are 5 comments in my inbox that will never be published. They are all one sentence or shorter in length. Four include the words, “You are …”, three of them include profanity, and three are from the same witch. (I mean that literally. Her email and username identify her as such.) Of the two comments made this year, both are in response to the ‘Bat Boy Bill’ post. IMO it’s pretty amazing that out of the 4,742 comments this blog has received, there haven’t been more deranged BL’s cussing at me. LOL! I could have done better than that in 10 minutes over ‘you know where’ if I’d set my mind to it.
At the same time, I am incapable of remaining classy in the face of stupidity. I admire Renee’s ability to keep her head.
Believe me, I lost my head and said things that I shouldn’t have over there, but they were not personal attacks.
Oh, I’ve got one in the ‘Rabid fans’ thread that pretty much lead with “you are insane”. LMAO. I too am surprised I don’t get more comments from them but it came to a screeching halt after they had their say in that thread.
I too would love to find a BL who would at least TRY to make a coherent case for Bill’s romantic hero statues based on the subtext but it’s impossible.
Sunny, I think you do a great job ‘keeping your head’. I have been over at your place when BL’s had swooped in to add acid comments to discussions. I found the thread and have read the last few days. Not one of your comments over there is still there. You have been eradicated, lady. Like I said, their loss.
Thanks osterby, you are TOO kind–literally.
I only made two comments in that thread. When the first one was deleted, I repeated my main points in another and it was deleted as well. I had been run off by msbuffy early this year and hadn’t been back except to read. When the attacks on Renee started I could no longer hold my tongue.
Well, I put my two cents in:
2492. RE: Title for Episode 1: “She’s Not There”
1 minute ago | Post edited: 1 minute ago (edit my post)
Holy cow. Really??? You ban people from posting their opinions on an open forum? You censor people’s post for defending themselves and other’s posts when others belittle them? Way to make a newbie feel welcome folks. I cannot understand for the life of me why HBO would tolerate such open hostility in their forum to viewers of their programming who chose to heed the series creator’s words and look beneath the surface and find meaning to the obvious subtext. I am saddened by what has transpired here today. I don’t think I’ll come back.
Osterby, thank you for the support. It means a lot, not because I need it–it’s really not that big of a deal–but because it’s from you. That makes it priceless.
You most welcome. I read the last few days, and was WTF?? The mod was abrasive and wrong. It’s just part of me to stick up for anyone who has been clearly wronged. I have read your comments here, at TBU and at SVB. I have never read anything you have written to be offensive. Heck when I post off the wall stuff and other’s have made rude comments you have picked up on my half thought out themes and run with them. (Sookie’s lavender dress and the Vanity Fair article, to name one.) I’m from the other Big D, I just gotta stick up for home girl, it’s just the way we roll around here.
Oh, I cliched the contact button over there and set it to the moderators as well.
Reading the nonsense “you know where” and getting angrier by the word, it’s better for me not to respond. I’m much happier to be in the company of a class act such as TAP, Sunny and SVB, and the intuitive posters here. Taking a lesson from anna, I breath deep and ….ommmmmmmm. Can’t do the lotus position though, hips can’t take it. lol
I like SVB but haven’t posted there for months, I can’t do the lotus position comfortably either!
This other place sounds awful; I will be happily staying here thanks.
I am so grateful to all you lovely ladies. I couldn’t have hand picked a better group of buds to hang out with.
LOL! IPhone auto correct funny–’hand picked’ was changed to ‘hand licked.’ Ewww! With all the typos I miss, thank goodness I caught that one
I finally got brave enough to leave a comment on Red re: what’s occuring (in a nice way) The responce was to “check Thread #1 on that Season 4 site”. I checked & it had just been “edited” You know that last sentence where we are “remineded that this is not an Eric site” (My words).. well now Bill’s name has been added. I guess 2 show “neutrality) YEH SURE! I’m staying off AGAIN because This has made me angry & I don’t get angry. I just Don’t. It’s a little too much like JHS. Renee, you brought so much 2 that site. They don’t want ANY “thinking”.there U R just too smart/good 4 them. (just read my mind here)
I’ll continue with Ericsarea5 & this & a couple more.
I LOVE Erik, but only because he’s hot as H*ll. but I never hated Bill or any other characters. Eric is the only one who’s REAL.
EL, I am so sorry that you got caught up in my mess. I really don’t want to spoil things for others over there.
See what I mean? A CLASS ACT RENEE.
R U kidding? I only came “aboard’ 2 TB WIKI this summer & was chastized & threatened 3X by “the boss” I couldn’t believe it.It angered me 2 B spoken 2 like a “bad child” .. I stayed off & would just pop in till U came & it was wonderful 2 c U saying all the things I was saying B4 (which I got tongue lashed 4). At last, someone who agreed with me & also had all this literature background & gave such enlightment & info. sending me back 2 “info” sites. Sorry renee, but it’s just 2 DUMB there 4 U. (& 4 me) U R a Class Act. I’ll stick here.
Okay I need a little help for part 3. There are now 5 parts but trust me it all works together. I’m really going to need help identifying stories after this you’ll see why. The writers and actors on the show/interview are subtle/misleading like you wouldn’t believe. Some example I put are going to be a fit and the others, are just going to show. So for clarification.
1. Would you say a zeus character has been identified?
2. I can’t find the post what could’ve happened the first night Bill and Sookie met. When Jason showed up to Merlotte’s in the pilot, was that before or after Sookie had Bill’s blood?
3. And for something different. For S1 were the names Patty and Cindy in the book? As in S1. And how often was Tina mentioned? And did Sookie find her on the fan like on the show?
1. Off the top of my head, I’d say that Niall has the potential to be a Zues…shifting into animals and seducing pretty milk maids sounds like Sam…
2. It appears to be before since that was n1 and Sookie had Bill’s blood n2, but I think the timeline is off and she already had it.
3. I’m pretty sure Patty and Cindy are in teh book. I’ll double check and report back later today. Tina was more prominent than in TB and she was hung from a fan. Don’t let CH keep you from making these connections. Many of the ones I find originate with her, and she majored in playwriting in the 60s or 70s so she would be well versed in theater of the absurd and surrealism.
While you and Amil are contemplating, a teensy off topic.
Watching s1 sp.1 last night, I noticed that the John Deere sign did a little shifting. When the Ratt’s enter the bar, it is at the entrance.
When Bill returns for his second visit, it is hung by the fireplace where it has been ever since I believe.
Oh hey now, that is interesting! So we’ve got evidence of another dancing object right off the bat which tends to prove Renee’s thesis that Sookie was mixed up from the very beginning.
I agree with Renee’s thesis. I still say she knew when he entered the bar before she even saw him. Almost like she sniffed the air and recognized something familiar.
Yep, and the episode description says: “Sookie Stackhouse, a waitress with telepathic abilities *falls under the spell* of a 173 year old vampire.” Interesting choice of words, that.
There is exactly the same reaction the 2nd time he comes to the bar.
She senses something then turns to see him. SM as Bill was particularly handsome in that shot. Just goes to show what lighting and soft focus can do to suck in many. Not to take away from SM. He is a good looking guy.
This is what part 3 is about. I’m doing this as I go along so thanks.
Look forward to reading it. We’ll be here ready when you are.
I just did a search of DUD.
*Below is when CH made the Cindy character is intro:
“I don’t want no one messing with Arlene’s friend,” Rene said matter-of-factly. “Merlotte’s is a nice place, we all want to keep it nice. ‘Sides, sometimes you remind me of Cindy, you know?”
Cindy was Rene’s sister. She’d moved to Baton Rouge a year or two ago. Cindy was blond and blue-eyed: beyond that I couldn’t think of a similarity. But it didn’t seem polite to say so. “You see Cindy much?” I asked. Hoyt and the other man at the table were exchanging Shreveport Captains scores and statistics.
“Every so now and then,” Rene said, shaking his head as if to say he’d like it to be more often. “She works in a hospital cafeteria.”
Book Cindy wasn’t a waitress in Patty’s pie house. A search for ‘patty (‘s) or pie house get no results.
* Bill found Tina on the front porch.
Bill investigated the yard and the woods, moving with a sure, silent grace. Finally he came lightly up the steps. He bent over something on the front porch. The angle was too acute, and I couldn’t tell what it was. When he straightened, he had something in his hands, and he looked absolutely … expressionless.
This was very bad.
I went reluctantly to the front door and unlocked it I pushed out the screen door.
Bill was holding the body of my cat.
“Tina?” I said, hearing my voice quaver and not caring at all. “Is she dead?”
Bill nodded, one little jerk of his head.
“What—how?”
“Strangled, I think.”
Woops! I’ve got to take a refresher course on the novels and stop commenting about them off the top of my head. Thanks for the clarification, Osterby.
Its interesting that CH has Tina strangled like the human murder victims, but AB has her killed with a knife like Gran.
You would think that if Rene was one of those kids who butcher animals, his human murders wouldn’t be bloodless.
I’m having the worst time making connections because they draw from so many sources. It could be anything. If I could ask them anything it would be how do they put it all together in just some months?
Forgot these questions.
1. How long after Rene killed Cindy did he start killing again in Bon Temps?
2. How long Sookie has been working at Merlotte’s?
I think Sookie has been working at Merlotte’s for five years if I’m not mistaken.
As for Cindy, I think the old man in Patty’s Pie House said he knew Cindy for a while ‘a couple of years ago’.